Zimbabwe's principal political protagonists, Robert Mugabe and Morgan Tsvangirai, have signed an agreement which establishes a framework for substantive negotiations to end the country's political crisis.
clearly Mugabe realises his illegitimate presidency requires some legitimacy in the form of the will of the people ie Tsvangarai. This is clearly Mugabe admitting to us all that he is not a legitimate president. Because a legitimate president would not have to hand power to an opposition. It must be really embarrassing for him to have to shake hands with someone who he thinks represents the west who he clearly hates so much. This is a win for the MDC. This justifies Morgan T pulling out of the run off. Because if he had stayed and competed in an obviously rigged environment, then you probably wouldnt see this negotiation take place. The problem, as I see it, is that Mugabe only wants to be seen negotiating. He wont concede anything, so the negotiation is a waste of time. I would like to see the reference group step in and take more control of Mbeki, because I can guarantee that Mbeki will tell them what they want to hear, not what is happening.
Blessed, be His name!!
"Quiet diplomacy" has secured the first baby-steps in the road to a better Zimbabwe.
Well done to Mugabe and Tsvangirai and huge praise to Thambo Mbeki for perservering in the face of non-African criticism of his efforts to resolve what is a most difficult and complex situation.
Well done too, to the Southern African Develoment Community and the African Union.
Long live African solutions to African problems.
If you don't compromise, you are a ruthless dictator. If you do, you are a flunky.
I hope they are able to bring the country together, shut up the western hypocrties (who sponsor mercenaries for the overthrow of african countries as a hobby), and do so without giving land to the children of the colonizers.
"A borrowed fiddle never finishes a tune." Zimbabwean Proverb
Peace and Justice!
hold on there a minute raiseeveryvoice....it is YOU lot on here that has called just about everyone that has disagreed with mugabe a puppet of the west..including the very same Morgan T mugabe is now supping tea with and shaking hands. So by extension your zero mugabe is also a puppet of the west!! As for the children of the colonisers jibe...if you had any common sense about you, you would know that virtually all mugabe's ministers' kids are studying in the very same ex colonial countries and are refusing to return to the land their fathers are currently dismantling..sorry..ruining..sorry..governing! Even the dictators kids got more sense than you lot posting here and kissing mugabe's butt and licking his boots!
It is high time some accepted that Mugabe, like many Africans, is smarter than they have previously given him credit for.
Mugabe won the presidential elections.
It's too early to celebrate enthusiastically but it is right and proper to celebrate the small but significant success of the start of talks nonetheless.
All parties are likely to want a revised constitution and one that ensures the land revisions, introduced after independence by Zanu-PF, cannot be undermined at any time in the future by self-interested non-Africans.
Shame on those who are trying to paint these talks as weakness on anybody's part. Some have spent months condemning Mugabe (and Mbeki) for not resolving the Zimbabwe issues and now seek to condemn Mugabe for sitting down at a table and talking about constructive resolutions. Detractors cannot have it both ways and their shameless and unsubtle attempts to divide and rule Zimbabwe have failed because they took on a leader, in Mugabe, who has Zimbabwe and Zimbabweans at his heart as opposed to the destruction of Zimbabwe for selfish gain.
Mugabe is talking to the opposition on his terms and as president. After everything, he has shown himself to be a brave and dedicated leader and a shrewd politician of the highest order on the international stage.
Again, congrats to all parties involved in the talks, good luck to them and may God be with them or devil-inspired foreigners really will take Zimbabwe.
In which world are you living?
Would you sing the same rotten song had maverick Mugabe kill, maim or rape your wife, sister, daughter, son or any close family members? I admit there are guys who can because they want to continue to enjoy picking the crumbs falling from the table!
You should at least respect the fallen victims of monstrous Mugabe because they held political views opposed to the hero turned bloodstained dictator.
The "children of the colonisers" would be you, raiseyervoice. Native people in Zimbabwe were San Bushmen until you killed them all.
A better solution as you say would have been for the west to sponsor a resistance to wipe out mugabe and his idiots. As it stands now zimbabwe will have to move ahead saddled with an illigitemate president hanging on for dear life.
You seem to a hair brained idiot. let the Zimbabweans solve their problem in a Zimbabwe way in a Zimbabwe time. We dont need any lectures from people wo are killing innocent hapless peoople in Iraq, Afgan, and now trying to kill people in Iran. same on you who thought Mugabe is for the taking. Mugabe, Tsvangison, Mbeki ndokubigayi.
moltec...the zimbabwe solution is sending out thugs to kill, maim and rape political opponents..I certainly do not want a part of that..but then once a thug always a thug and we excuse you for that. Now try to learn a little civility and realise the world has moved on from that silliness.
I think turnex is sick and the sad thing is he doesn't seem to realise it. Someone please help this guy.
damn right I am sick...sick to death of thickos that cant see further their noses as regards the atrocities of mugarbage and how it is he and zanu alone to blame for the ills plagueing the country now and not the west! as people on here have observed...zim has nothing to offer the west...if it did the USA would have been in there quick as a flash...so stop this fantasy that somehow the USA is after something zim has...there is bugger all in the country now of worth to anyone!!!
So you think the US is not after anything in Zimbabwe when they declared that Zimbabwe posed an extraordinary security threat to US interest. That wa George Bush himself last year. And ZIDERA? You obviously don't seem to know about ZIDERA. I will remind you of just a part of one section that says sanctions against the Zimbabwean Government (note it does not say against Mugabe) will not be lifted until the land holding position prior to April 17 2000 is restored. What happened on April 17 2000. The Parliament of Zimbabwe passed the Land Acquisition Act restoring all land in Zimbabwe into the hands of the Zimbabwean Government. And you talk of the US not having an interest in Zimbabwe.
Vakomana daidzai vamwe. Mupwere wakadyiswa uyu. Ungoda kurutsiswa. Kufunga nedumbu achisiya musoro, akomana ere?
I could not agree with you more...Zidera did indeed seize farms and hand them into the hands of the zimbabwe govt ie mugabe who in turn handed them over to his cronies who in turn have let them go to ruin..just like the rest of the country. which is why in accord with the written law, namely releasing the farms into the hands of the zimbabwe govt..the reaction had to be against the ......zimbabwe govt. surely even you are smart enuogh to realise that no law could be written to go through parliament to release the farms into the control of mugabe...like I said..ndiwe iwe urimufourteen nevamwe wako pano vasina kupedza grade 6!!!
Haha... zimbabwean way like Mugabe dealt with the 20,000 dead Ndebele people in the 80's? Or how he beat, murdered and tortured his way to win the run off? You people disgust me.
Did you count them, l mean my brothers and sisters from western Zimbabwe? You are a trouble maker between brothers and sisters. Your patronising stance wont get you anywhere. The President, RGM, have already accepted that GROSS errors were done in the west and everything got to be done to generate RECONCILLIATION and close the shameful chapter in our country's history. But foreigners and outsiders like war mongers like you rhodies should keep out of Gt Zim affairs. We have a lot of VERY CAPABLE young Zimbabweans who are going to carry the torch forward with determination. This, l am sure of. OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DYNAMIC and FOCUSED..... especially after their re-education and eye-opening experience in the diaspora all over the world. MATOKURA MAJAYA EDU NETSIKOMBI DZOSE!!!
their 're education' is that like a result from the torture camps employed by ZANU-PF militias on MDC supporters so they would vote for Mugabe? How do you condone and support someone who has blatently murdered, tortured, raped and beaten your brothers and sisters into submission to keep power?
mugarbage is the one that got up one morning and went on a killing spree of the ndebeles because he hated the intelligent nkomo. We did not compel him to do that. Mugarbage is the one that unleashed his greenbombers to go and rape, maim and kill anyone suspected of voting mdc..again..not our bidding. so instead of talking rot..answer my question..what the hell are you doing in a white run country instead of basking in the freedom and economic miracle that zimbabwe is today...where EVERY citizen has been made a trillionaire!!!!
SHUT UP !!! You patronising looser!!! Where is your rhodesia and your "not in a thousand years ..." talk to the world. Like the children of sraeli, the children of Great Zimbabwe have their fate in their own hands. Settlers, both physical and psychological ones, merely exploit and abuse and control through the creation of conflicts between brothers.
aka..my rhodesia is in my heart boyo..and nobody can ever take it away from me..not you not mugabe not anyone. I loved the life I had in rhodesia..food aplenty, employment, low taxes, a respectable currency, a clean police force, an efficient well trained army(remember the selous scouts and the rhodesian african rifles), ministers that were not corrupt and busy lining their pockets with the country's wealth, ministers' wives who went shopping to miekles and barbours and greatermans..not harrods, bloomingdales etc..ministers kids who schooled at rhodesian schools...not half way across the world in "evil western" learning institutions. So try as you might boyo..you wont take those fond memories away from me...I think your bitterness comes from a self acknowledgement of the fact that rhodesia was a thousand times better than the zimbabwe your mates have built boyo and you should deal with that...dont take it out on us...go see a shrink or something...boyo!
well Im certainly glad that that wonderful Rhodesia will remain between your ears. In that Rhodesia, as a black man, I wouldn't have been allowed to attend such schools as Falcon, which are great not because they are white (a common misconception of all things good) but because their positioning in history, socio-economically and what not,par exemple literally standing on a gold mine (on land taken from Umzingwane natives). LIke Obama now, i couldn't have even dreamed about leading my nation. Id just have to have hoped to find a nice white man to pay a fair wage, have many kids and pray for pension. As one of those young Zimbos in the diaspora, i say f*(& that! even as bad as things are- zimbabwe remains resource rich and is a couple credit lines from the road to recovery. Im not a fan of politics, i emulate very few politicians (non-living) and realize that the global order is money based now, not race.im technocratic at best. having lived in the Diaspora, black ownership of anything; houses, businesses is easier at home than the US and UK, where there are literally more black men in jails than colleges. real talk (maybe you'd think that's more to do with the psychology and nature of the negro, than his history and contemporary struggle. Blacks, minorities; indigenous peoples continue to be displaced globally; in the US they call it gentrification- so the western media has double-standards, only reporting movement of ppl in Zim, Liberia etc. why are Bush and Blair not being tried for war crimes? most young Zimbos in the diaspora have been fed on western media, fashion, coca cola etc all their life, even in Zim- they don't even love the skin they live in never mind their country. Im going back tho- Zimbabwe is bigger than Bob and Tsvangison and Ian Smith for that. i think its gonna start becoming clear what places in western societies are really meant for dark skinned ppl. (except the 1% who qualify to be "highly skilled migrants")Come back and build your country young people of Zimbabwe.lower your standards for a couple to five years- leave starbucks hehe. I'll leave a quote from Renan (a white man)
It is not only a common past but also a common desire to shape the future that can unite a people.
zimtrain...before I reply to your rambling post...just one question to you as well. Why did you leave zimbabwe..why did you not leave rhodesia when the standard of living was oh so unbearable for the average black man. why are you now living in a western world where they throw more black men into jail even though its actually white people committing the crime?? what are you waiting for before going back to zimbabwe?? get on the next plane and help the rebuilding which by your highly optimistic standards ought to take no more than a mere 5yrs!!! the longer you delay the worse it will be for your fellow black folk in zimbabwe adn no doubt for you too...who knows..maybe the authorities have already marked your card and you are the next black man to join the swelling numbers of innocent black folk jailed in western nations whilst white folk are left to commit crime after crime with impunity!
by the way..what colour is the sky on your planet???
I think people need to stop falling for the whole 'colonisation" lie Mugabe been selling for so long.
1) Most countries in the world have mixed races. They don't decide to get rid of people whos ancestors arrived there a long time ago. Look at brazil, Colombia,. Do you see them trying to get rid of all the white people there because their ancestors went there 4 years ago? just drop the racism for one moment. Mugabe has made the race issue his forte because he is a useless leader. 2) By your rationale do we then say all black people must leave America, Britain and go back to whichever countries their ancestors came from? 3) britain is not a colonial power. it hasn't been interested in making colonies for decades now. It gave them all back. Did this fact pass you by while you spent years listening to radio Mugabe? if anything Britain is trying to give Zimbabwe aid to help it, not colonise it. Talking of foreign aid, most countries will refuse to give it if the government still includes Mugabe. so maybe you zimbabweans better actually do something to get rid of him. have an armed uprising. its what any normal country does when it wants to get rid of its leaders.
Nobody's getting rid of white people in Zimbabwe. What a silly thing to say.
A well constructed reposte to the mugabe lovers on here. well done chipembere...look out though..you are soon going to be the target of vicious slurs from mugabe's cheerleaders on here who cannot see ANY wrong in their dear leader commie gabby and his first tart graceless!
Where are the native population? Are their included in your visionary thought of what Brazil is. What the Americas has become. Where are the native, name me one that's not locked away in a book and has no physical being to acknownledge his existence. Go name one!
Rewarding Mugabe for his actions will encourage more nutters to force their way back into power. Too many African kids, throughout the world, already think being 'bad' is 'good' and it is spreading.
Make Africa somewhere they will want to live, now... please, we beg you.
so so true AWT. Morgan pulled a the rub from under the feet of the dictator. Problem as you point out is the ineffectual mbeki. he should be assigned the taking of minutes and the arbitration should be overseen by Khama from botswana. He knows where to put mugabe and not the fawning mbeki!!!!
Shame on those that thought Africans can't find a solution, if they mean business..... On the other hand, I still think Morgan is a puppet of London......
Then it must be hard for you to accept that Mugabe is going to give some power to the anglos... you must be asking yourself why!
Yyou are the sort of people Mr Morgan Tsvangirayi can do without. Your type have gone enough damage to Morgan's goals. I used to attend all the meetings set up by SABA (southern africa business assocition) in London and it did not dwell on Tsvangi that the colonials meant no good. Mind you l have respect for leaders of capital who are still doing business with Gt Zimbabwe and creating employment. Makorokoto vakuru woye. Ngaibhuye iAfrika!!!
The west can't be too happy right now for seeing Africans taking peaceful steps to solve African problems, the west would preferred that we kill each other and act like savages in order to satisfied its theory of superiority.
You have an agreement with a man that uses the military to hold onto power. Seriously think it's going to be more than a puppet government? Zimbabwe should reject the agreement and demand the overthrow and prosecution of Mugabe. Why accept one form of oppresion over another? The people should rise up and demand free and fair elections even if it means armed conflict against Mugabe's cohorts. Afterwards they should allow the UN to appoint a commision to run the government for a couple months until the election. The humanitarian situation should be dealt with immediatly to avoid a crisis. Your country is the most mismanaged in all of Africa. The bread basket of Africa is on the verge of a food crisis and humanitarian disaster. This is the time for the people to let their voices be heard. Demand your freedom!!! Dont except false promises from the dictator who will never allow his power to falter. To be weak is to be oppressed. Rise up and do what needs to be done!!!
I thought the west was backing morgan, wanted Morgan to run zimbabwe..wanted morgan this and that and the other..so how can you now say the west is unhappy that morgan and mugarbage are talking?? you cant have it both ways boyo! It is YOU lot on here that have had the rug pulled from under your feet by your useless leader. whilst you have been busy defending him and painting him to be some sort of hero he has been quietly begging morgan to talk to him!!!
you haven't clearly read the Memorandum Of Understanding here is a line that I see as being very critical:
Communication with the media
None of the Parties shall, during the Dialogue period, directly or indirectly communicate the substance of the discussion with the media. The parties shall refrain from negotiating through the media, whether through their representatives to the Dialogue or any of their Party officials.
Cuts the puppet master string from the puppet. "We shall be doing this as Zimbabwean" and a shake of hands the elder statemen is addressed by the opposition as willing to approach the issue as a "collective effort and it involves tolerance and compromise putting what is best for zimbabwean," The victor Mugabe, loser those out of the table "the west". Next Namibia, and South Africa.
"CUT OFF WHATEVER INFLUENCE FROM US FROM USA AND EUROPA" MUGABE!!!
Yesssss, indeed, panther!! And may woe betide those who attempt to undermine the talks:
"As we begin the interaction, we shall be doing so as Zimbabweans, entirely as Zimbabweans, with the help of South Africa and that we cut off whatever were influences on us from Europe or the United States.
"We must act as Zimbabweans, think as Zimbabweans, be masters of our own destiny.
"If we do that, there will be no need for us to suffer under sanctions, no need for us to call for Europe to impose sanctions. There will be no need for a European hand, we don't want it.
"That way we will find we are real, true, friendly, brotherly and sisterly Zimbabweans," said President Mugabe.
He said Africa could assist in the process, but not European and American masters.
"Let's move forward and start on what Professor Mutambara has been calling one vision for Zimbabwe, singing one national anthem, flying one flag," said Cde Mugabe.
But as President Mugabe warned against foreign meddling, Keith Scott, the first secretary at the British embassy, was trying to gatecrash into Jacaranda Room where the signing ceremony took place.
He and other officials from European embassies in Harare were milling outside the room and some could be seen jostling with journalists for a copy of the MoU, which was made available after the signing ceremony.
Tsvangirai said he was committed to dialogue and failure was not an option.
"My commitment to this process is unquestionable, it is not superficial, it is total because we want to achieve what Zimbabweans out there want to achieve.
"I sincerely acknowledge that if we put our heads together we can find a solution, not finding a solution is not an option.
http://www.herald.co.zw/inside.aspx?sectid=898&cat=1
Selector, how can you condone and support a man that has blatantly beaten, raped and murdered your brothers and sisters to keep power?:
Selector, by your very words you have proved yourself to be regressive rather than progressive ..... by using the phrase 'European and American Masters' you have shown that you are not only enslaved by history itself, but see yourself as a perpetual victim.
Look at the bigger picture ..... cut the western governments out of the picture and denounce them by all means, but don't tar us all with the same brush ..... as I said to marius in another thread, I am not my father and neither are you yours.
Timberwolf, the word are not mine. The quotes are from Mugabe and Tsvangirai.
Accepted and apologies for the misapprehension, I shall then say that whoever out of the two of them said it has the problem I described in my last post
"SAVA FACE" ??? What face you failure! Your posts have ONE thing as their sole objective, namely, to DIVIDE and RULE zimbabweans. You failed, OOoh Rhodie!!! You are clearly no friend of Tsvangi. All you do is encourage him to deal with the colonisers. Whose interests are serving???
"SAVA FACE" ??? What face you failure! Your posts have ONE thing as their sole objective, namely, to DIVIDE and RULE zimbabweans. You failed, OOoh Rhodie!!! You are clearly no friend of Tsvangi. All you do is encourage him to deal with the colonisers. Whose interests are serving???
akafunboy, have you figured out that there were more that 2 countries fighting the first and second world wars yet? You are sooooo dumb! Your posts really have no credibility after you said that. Still makes me laugh though, so thanks for providing my day with humour!
I thought it best to ignore you BUT your posting clearly shows how DESPERATE you rhodies to see a fight between the sons and daughters of Gt Zim. You are LOSERS and LOSERS you remain for ever. Makorokoto to both our leaders, president RGM ang Tsvangirayi
Hold on a minute there..it was only a fortnight ago you were calling morgan all sorts of unpleasant names..saying he had sold out to the west..was a puppet of the west..was being controlled by ex rhodies in his cabinet...today he is your leader...today your credibility has landed in the sewer boyo...and you still have not answered my question...how is it that you could not bring yourself to pack your bags and leave the racist white ruled rhodesia and the minute your dishonorable mugarbage took over..you packed up and settled illegally at that, in a white run country. Answer that please, instead of resorting to name calling. Yes I am a rhodie in that I was born in rhodesia as it states on my BC..where were you born boyo...??? rhodesia, salisbury I guess..dont run away from your heritage..you are a rhodie through and through..even in your thinking because you were smart enough to know which side your bread is buttered on and left zimbabwe ruins as soon as you could!
I thought it best to ignore you BUT your posting clearly shows how DESPERATE you rhodies to see a fight between the sons and daughters of Gt Zim. You are LOSERS and LOSERS you remain for ever. Makorokoto to both our leaders, president RGM ang Tsvangirayi
First thing everybody should agree to is to put up a memorial shrine in Harare in front of the parliament in honour of the valient innocent victims of maverick Mugabe's killing, maiming and rape. Mugabe and cronies should be ordered to bow down there and let flow their crocodile's tears and ask for forgiveness.
The International Criminal Court will anyway be lying in wait for them until such time that they could be safely tried for crime against humanity.
In the meantime, civilian pressure groups should keep the midnight lamp burning and closemy monitor the Commissioner of Police and the chiefs of the various Army units. They should also as usual keep the public informed regularly on any attempt to maintain maverick Mugabe at the helm.
People know that the MDCs signed in duress. The majority of the African leaders must be blamed for failing to denounce dictator Mugabe and give him marching orders out of power!
The least in the meantime is to curse him for turning every Zimbabwean a billionaire!!
It is too early to celebrate, it just maybe a repeat of the ZANU-PF/PF-ZAPU scenario. Too many people seem to spend much of their time invoking the dislike of the West. Just because people feel the West is the enemy, it does not mean the East (China, etc) are friends. The East is only in Africa for its own interest. We as Africans need to define what is the path to prosperity for ourselves and future generations. This path to prosperity may involve dealing with either the East or West, as long as it suits us; not just them. What we need in Africa is to first get rid of autocrats, dictators and the like and then build our capacity - human, social, technological and cultural
How refreshing to read some common sense at last. Well done shingi...if only these people could open their eyes and see that china is only "friends" with africa now for its resources. Where has china been all these years??
So are you saying that the west is a genuine friend of Africa and not after the resourses? Do you really think we are so stupid to believe that? The west has been raping Africa for centuries you fool. You are just an IDIOT!
Actually Kube "my job keeps me in NZ" tana (that still cracks me up every time, you are the idiot here. Your leader has sold out your resources to China in exchange for a £4.5 million mansion. And now he is negotiating to give power to the puppet of the west, and by doing so admitting that his presidency is illegitimate.... well well well, what a turn of events...
kuba...all I was doing was begging you to apply your same logic that you rattle off on here regarding the evil west..that it wants to rape africa of its resources(which in some instances you are correct) but whilst you and I acknowledge that...why not apply the same reasoning to china too. Look at zambia as a case in point...they are sick to the back teeth of the chinese...because the chinese ship in their own workers to do the work and dont use the local populace...the goods they make are nothing but cheap trinkets whilst they are shipping out the minerals. Show me a country please that china has been involved in that has prospered. Look at how zimbabwe benefited from the input and british influence..the very fact you are able to communicate fluently in english and have a high standard of education(I know I poke fun at you but even you recognise that is out of frustration borne out of your lack of understanding some of the points put out here)...all that is owed to the british that colonised us. Look at the countries that broke away early from colonial rule....decrepit to say the least!!! and you cannot deny that. by the way I am still waiting for a repy to my questions. why did you not run away from white rule..why instead did you gap it when it was black rule and why are you in a white ruled joint and not one of the fantastically ruled thriving african countries up north???
kuba..unfortunately this forum format does not support picture drawings or I would present the argument for you in pictoral form..you might just get the idea then. Nobody here said the west was a true friend of africa..all i said is it is shortsighted to assume the chinese are friends of africa and the west are enemies because all the chinks want from africa is her natural resources....if you had none the chinks would be befriending someone else..simple boyo. However..go online and see how much aid the west gives africa and then see how much china has given africa.....you may not wish to admit it after but anyone with half a brain would have to admit the west is a far better "friend" of african than the chinks.
The exact phrasing used was:
"Just because people feel the West is the enemy, it does not mean the East (China, etc) are friends. The East is only in Africa for its own interest."
Now unless I'm very much mistaken kube (and I'm not), that doesn't say that the west is a friend, it says that people see the west as an enemy, which they do, regardless of the fact that the PEOPLE of the west are not the enemy, the GOVERNMENTS of the west are what you should be stating to be absolutely correct (and then only if you want to look back to the colonial days).
What it says in essence is 'distrust the west all you want, but also question the motives of the east, because they have proved that they are not above the same sort of tactics in the past'
"Where has china been all these years"??
China is now a superior "partner" to the European UNion and the United States of American and holds the best part of US$1 trillion in Central Bank reserves helping to prop up the the failing US currency globally.
You appear to suggest that while the EU and the USA benefit from China's new prosperity, Africa should not.
Geez, China and all this money, yet they still refuse to lend it to Zimbabwe... something must be up. Wait... the governement is corrupt. Thats it.
The agreement between Mugabe, Tsvangirai and Mutambira is a first step. It promises a better political future for all parties, so it seems on the surface. But, we all forget that the Zanu/Zapu union was the beginning of a one party state. The one party Zimbabwe, while was stable and peaceful, not much democracy was achieved.
Zimbabweans need to embrace multiparty democracy as in Botswana, Zambia, Kenya etc. That is where you can have a much more democratic society. Far too many times Zanu-pf has viewed the MDC-T as enemies of the state, as opposed to a party that is also working for the prosperity of Zimbabwe. Given this background, can anybody be really confident that this will be the beginning of tolerance or just another one party system?
I'm also very suprized that the MDC-T having won the majority of seats in Parliament, still cannot project confidence that they have the popular vote. The MDC is the largest opposition party in Africa. The MDC need to show Zimbabweans that they can lead and are an alternative to Zanu-pf. The MDC need to show that Zimbabweans, not britons matter the most. Somehow Tsvangirai still projects that he is a stoog of the western world, even if he may not be! Tsvangirai now needs to capitalize his popularity into deliverables to the people of Zimbabwe.
It's not often that I agree with your posts Phiri, but I'm right behind you on this one.
Can talks save Zimbabwe? Can the deal work?
You create doubting Thomas. Yes. We know that the West and the US never believe in MoUs but in wars, invasions and occupations. Colonial and Capitalist mentality galore. Without that meddling, I am sure, any dispute can be solved.
Look at the Palestiinian issue. From the Quartet if the West and US is thrown out, by now that issue would have been not there. This MoU is an example for the UN to issue stern warning to the West and the US.
The signing of the Memorandum of Understanding by the principals, Mugabe, Tsvangirai and Mutambara looks on paper to be a great leap forward. I however don't trust the seriousness of these people especially Mugabe. How many pieces of legislation has he broken with the whole world watching. This agreement is going to be one of the many rules that Robert has and will continue to break. He has sponsored state violence which is totally against the law of Zimbabwe. He has flouted the electoral laws in broad daylight. That on its own clearly shows the kind of person we are faced with. Mugabe is simply going to flout the MOU very soon for he is not going to operate within the provided framework regardless of the signature he appended on it bearing in mind he has already breached countless documents bearing his signature. I however advise the other principals to remain focused and ensure that Zimbabwe is brought back to where it belongs. We want jobs, education, food, security etc and from the MOU it looks as if those issues are top on the list and there is need to soldier on until change is achieved. To Mr Mutambara, my homeboy is really showing that he is a great opportunist and he is going "there" through the back door.
What a monstrous coincidence!!
The day when news broke out that karadzic was arrested after hiding for more than ten years, maverick Mugabe believing he was God-annoited President of Zimbabwe, woke up from his nightmarish dream to shake hands with President-elect Tsvangirai!
Does bloodstained Mugabe think that history will forget the genocide in Matabeleland or the killings, maiming and rape conducted under his command during the pre and post election campaign recently?
The arrest of Karadzic should send a strong signal to him to immediately hand over power to the presumptive winner of the presidential elections. Otherwise, the more he will resist handing over power the more the agony of Zimbabweans will call for dragging him and his cronies to the International Criminal Court.
ok, I'm cross posting this from another thread, because I really want to see what some of the personalities from both sides of the fence have to say to this:
Looking at this thread among others I'm going to profer an observation here that will no doubt come under fire from the people it's aimed at ..... and thats fine.
To the occasional white supremacist that posts their colonial rant on here:
Rhodesia is gone, it isn't coming back, and reminiscing on what you see as 'the good old days' isn't going to help matters as far as discussions go.
To the ZANU party faithful who insist on sticking to the 'Mugabe is God' line:
The West isn't the enemy here, neither is the East, and insofar as this board goes, neither are Mugabe, Tsvangirai or Mbeki. They all contribute to the physical problem, but there is a greater barrier to understanding here.
That barrier is that you seem to enjoy wallowing in the colonial past and remaining slaves to history, perpetual victims ..... like I said above, it's gone and it ain't coming back. You never forget the lessons of the past but don't get stuck there. You're so hung up on blaming others for the problems in Zimbabwe (and seeing evil western conspiracies everywhere you look) that you can no longer see reason when its posted and staring you in the face.
Pre independence South Africa and Rhodesia were indeed racist states, but they no longer exist ..... the racist state is now Zimbabwe, so don't you think, logically, that makes it as bad as Rhodesia ..... maybe even worse because the mistakes of the past are being repeated with no thought for the general population?
Ignoring the state sponsored human rights issues for a moment, and looking purely at the political policies of Zimbabwe since independence, it is quite clear that they have failed, and that being the case wouldn't you agree that the next step forward would be to take a pace backwards and review those policies?
Form cooperative farms with the last remaining white farmers, learn what they and their workers know and feed that out to the other farms as cooperative ownerships. Bring the people back into the country who can revitalise the industries and make those cooperative ownerships too.
It's taken 28 years to destroy the economy through policy, isn't it time that a review of policy started the economic regeneration? Or is it going to wait another 28 years before that happens?
timberwolf..I am not in the least bit offended. I never logged on here as an ex this or the other...the reason I am passionate about zimbabwe is because it is the place of my birth and I love the country. Howevr when i began expressing my misgivings concerning the misrule of mugabe...I was immediately labelled an ex rhodie, a white racist, a sell out, paid western puppet..you name it I was it..and not only me but also the likes of awt, glyph(where is glyph these days?) to name just a few. I only call myself a rhodie as a tongue in cheek response because I know it winds them up...ha ha. But facts remaining, NOBODY can refute the incontrovertible evidence that despite worldwide sanctions against the fledgling govt of ian smith...rhodesia was a far better country than zimbabwe is today! The very fact we are all debating this thousands of miles away from zimbabwe is testament to that fact.and black folk too at that. and that is what makes these guys on here so bitter. If only they would accept mugabe is not the hero we all thought he was. But your comments are noted and you have not offended me at all. Let's hope they will be well recieved by the mugarbage lovers!
Well this will be interesting to see where it goes from here and what the Mugabe 'rent a crowd' does while these talks are on. I still think that the worst thing MDC could do is hold talks regarding a government of national unity but it looks at this stage that it may be the only way to go. I also have aggreed the whole way along that it should be sorted out the Zimbabwean way but there is no way the country's problems can be sorted while Junior Hitler is in illegitimate control and without foreign aid.
Turnex, keep up the posts, they are excellent. Its funny how Mugabe's cronies always play the ex rhodie this ex rhodie that, sell out this sell out that cards when they have no answer for any of the questions put forward to them.
thanks be free..we can only try but it does get frustrating in the end. Like timberwolf says...these people are so blinded by some misguided ideology that even with the facts staring them in the face they will never accept them. so no point getting worked up..best to wind them up..LOL
It isn't my intention to offend, and I'm glad that it didn't ..... my intention is to at least go a small way to showing both sides of the fence that there can always be middle ground where we can put our heads together and work towards the future.
Unfortunately there are always going to be sycophants like mbapanther who simply refuse to look at the benefits of cooperation, a little like Mugabe did with his policies ..... but with enough people willing to work together, the small minded ones such as he are of no consequence, because they will always be working against the will of the people.
Slavery of Africans killed an est. 17,267,000. Leopold II of Belgium in Congo Killed an est. 10,000,000. Whole extinction of native American tribes whose legacy and very existence is erased by european monuments. Not happening in our AFRICA. I call whites born on African soil Nostalgia, born with blind justice, raised with a superiority complex and when abroad unable to fit in society. They live in a state of rustic denial. Their days are numbered in Southern Africa. MBA-Panthers (Movement yaBantu Alliance) is growing we were 1076 2 years ago now were at 3096 strong members from Angola, Congo, Zambia and Namibia. Were recruiting in all Sadc countries and the diaspora. Our goal: 1) kill whitey where ever he, his children and wife are in southern Africa. 2) Every monument of whitey to be destroyed. 3) Bring back Bantu customary laws. 4) Burn union building to the ground. 5)MBACONGO-MBANGOLA-MBANAMIBIA-MBAZAMBIA-MBAZANIA-MBATANZANIA-MBATSWANA-MBA SOTHO-MBASWAZI-MBAMOZAMBIQUE-MBAGABON-MBABUBE-MBAZIMBABWE-MBAMALAWI movement all around the region. Whitey's days are numbered under the African sun.
And this is a prime example of what I would expect from the 'trapped in history' side of the fence. Complete racism disguised as liberation talk.
It ain't liberation, liberation rang along time ago. This is justice eye for an eye, life for a life, hate for hate. We don't go after whitey for his skin we go for whitey cause of his deeds. The African soil is no longer your playing field on the world stage. Gone are the days of mining our resources for ATOMIC BOMBS over Japan. Gone are the days of dictating a destructive blueprint to development. Gone are the days of moral social decay under the false idealism of western democracy. This should be a revelation that nostalgia (whitey) will fade into that dim tunnel of history without one soul to remember him by. Justice leads one to act and we will act with our fist. We will be the judge advocate and jury of whitey on this southern african soil.
Mbapanther, you say, "We don't go after whitey for his skin we go for whitey cause of his deeds." It's one's actions. That is how it should be and that should apply to all people without any racism. On this forum, Whitey also doesn't go after blackie's skin, whitey goes for blackie because of his deeds. Example in mind is Mugabe. There has been such an outcry against the brutal actions of Mugabe by whites and blacks alike, with his race having nothing to do with it. It is because of his actions of brutality and murders and his total disregard for human life that he has joined the ranks of all the other leaders of the world known to be blatant killers. No one condemns those who go about their lives with respect and concern for the next person.
kj..it is telling that in the mind of this non entity the wrongdoers are all white skinned. just goes to show the extent of his racism. best ignore him to wallow in his filth.
Mugabe, Mugabe!!! Lets look at the inner working of the twisted minds of whitey. Baragwanath right by Soweto once the only place to get medical assistance in Soweto, blood transfusion tainted with aids and given to the masses. Are this people leaders or ordinary everyday nostalgia walking and breathing in the new south africa. Sterilization campagin in the cape province, to depopulate blacks by AWB nostalgia walking and breathing in the new south africa. Executive Outcome British backed private military training Ugandan and rwandan solider to kill peasants in kivu is this Mugabe. British aircrafts transporting minerals out of the congo while peasants are enslaved are this the doing of our black leaders or Western governments. Water supply being tainted in Namibia to depopulate the our brothers is this Mugabe. MBA sprung from the Congo war where 5 milliion lives were lost and where military personnels from Namibia, Angola, Zimbabwe, and Congo met and forged an alliance to start a millitant-political wing in southern africa in the Bantu homelands. So if you think flagging will end this movement a webpage is coming soon and were recruiting. Union Building is going to burn to the ground.
A webpage is coming? You're having trouble recruiting anyone who knows HTML out of your 3 thousand members?
My ten year old daughter could probably help you out, I can see it now, 3 thousand emailing militants talking stone age marxist rhetoric at eachother from internet cafes all over southern africa.
I tried 6 different search engines and guess what? No one has even heard of the MBA Panthers, you chould have probably picked something that sounded less like a little league baseball team.
So many fantasies so little time *LMAO*
panther..whilst you are pursuing whitey for imagined wrongs, blackie is perpetrating REAL crimes against his own and you are ok with that??? what a racist evil person you are. I was going to flag you post as racist and offensive but I thought it best to let others read it to see for themselves the twisted person you are! shame on you. Now please do us all a favour....evaporate!!!
I did warn you did I not?? you wasted your time trying to present the argument from both ends. These people are the new breed of racists on here and they wont hear otherwise. best humour them or it will get to you. what always makes me chuckle is they spew all this racist tripe from the comfort of a western country..ha ha..not back in africa amongst their beloved kith and kin!!!!
were in your military, one by one then we return home.
the sooner you leave the land of whitey that you hate so much and return to the land of blackie that you love so much the better for the most of us not blinded by a hatred of the white man. There are some of us that are grateful for the white man and all he has done. Yes there ar evil people out there but to define evil along racial lines is totally stupid and foolish to say the least. When Idi was butchering and eating his opponents nobody ever said ALL black people were evil..when Hitler was murdering jews on a wholesale scale nobody ever concluded ALL germans or white people for that matter were evil....in fact it was white people that eventually acted against one of their own who had taken leave of his senses. And that is what I will always admire about white folk...they are quick to punish one of thir own who strays...not sticking to him out of blind misplaced loyalty like you lot on here with your mugarbage!!!
I don't see it as a waste of time, because the fact remains that it is a minority that are so blind that they can't see the sense behind tolerance and cooperation. The majority will eventually start finding each other and pushing these idiots out of the equation, and while the racism that they incite will never completely disappear, it will become less and less until its a lesson learned in the formation of a new way.
an equation that does not include your kind on the african soil. What part of that don't you get? People don't like to dwell with the spawns of criminals in their homes. They may not address it but those that do are of noble nature. You wouldn't like to live with the sons of killers in your presence why should we. The deeds of the father is the legacy of the child whelter you like it or not. 94 was a year aparthied ended and you think those kids, and teenager have now put the past behind them. This isn't America, This isn't Australia, this is black africa. Our history is forged deep into this soil, the blood of our ancestor and our people nourishes this soil. The sun blazes over not a new horizion but one that has forever linked us to continous passage in time. We are settled underneath the African sky underneath the most anciet of history on god's green earth. where parasite are unwelcome, and evil shall not dwell. Rome shall not be built under the african sky!!
You are certainly deluded in your conclusion here, while the deeds of the father are the legacy of the child, the sins of the father should die with the father ..... and your comment about not wanting to live with the 'spawns of criminals' is also in error on this very point, one of my very best friends' father is serving a prison sentence for manslaughter (possible murder), does that mean that I should cast him out because he is, as you say, the spawn of a criminal?
Of course not, it was not he that performed the deed, but a completely different individual person, and he should not be punished by intolerant and morally self absorbed fools who would do so for the action of another.
The picture you paint of the MBA through your posts on here is one not of freedom fighting, not a noble and just cause, simply pure terrorism based on the colour of a persons skin.
Obviously the great Martin Luther King's struggle meant nothing to you, or you would know the idea of (not an exact quote, but certainly the same meaning) 'Man should not be judged by the quality of his skin but the content of his character'. You are so blinded by hatred and thoughts of revenge that you cannot see beyond it, and although you hate me for my colour, I pity you not for your skin colour or race, not for your country or religion, but for your heart, your intolerance, and your missed chances.
MALCOM X "we have brothers who can play just as rough," the new breed, take your martin luther king and stuff it. This isn't America, This isn't Australia. THis is my native soil, I dictate who is welcome and who stays at bay.
The majority dictate that, claiming that you and you only do so is arrogance beyond that which anyone else on here shows ..... all you seem to be able to do is spout racist slights without any real substance.
All Malcolm X did was got quite a few people on both sides killed with his heavy handed tactics, Martin Luther King was the one that got public opinion on his side and made the breakthroughs ..... and had he not been assassinated by a racist (a bit like yourself), whether that racist at the time was the alleged assassin or the state, he would have made even greater leaps in the 'one world' ideal of cooperation ..... and that was something Malcolm X could never understand, he saw everything in 'Black and White' terms where the only solution was struggle, and in doing so, he created in himself exactly the sort of victim and martyr scenario that he professed to be fighting against.
And that is what you're doing here, you're fighting a war thats been over for nearly 15 years, keeping it alive through messages of hate and intolerance. Much more headway could be made by actually accepting that the war is over and creating a framework where people of all colours can work together for the betterment of Africa rather than going for outright destruction and doing yet more harm to everyone.
then macbbbb please implore your beloved african leaders to return their kids from the western countries where they are attending universities and living the high life. you and your leaders are on two divergent paths I am afraid. they clearly see there is a lot to be gained from the white man...you on the other hand are too foolish to realise that!
One were not going after one, Nobody looks at a hourglass for a grain of sand. We looking at the collective will, the collective criminal act. The collective action of a group of people. Collective includes you.
Thats a bad analogy there MBA, and it's pretty much clutching at straws for justification.
Thats like saying that everyone in Iraq should have been put on trial for the crimes of Hussein, or everyone in the US should be put on trial for Iraq, or all Germans should be blamed for World War 2, or all Ugandans should have been jailed for the offences of Idi Amin ..... which is of course a preposterous idea. Your outlook on the world is seriously skewed and your hatred is colouring your judgement in a severe way.
You need to take a step back and look at your beliefs, because it is people such as you that harm Africa the most.
And you the one who can stand above it all, you the angel of the west not immersed by history. History dictates the present state, history is not tossed aside when graves are dug in as a memorial. History is prominent symbol when its by product, rape are called colored on the streets. When sacred grounds are taken and turned into resort towns while the natives wander the city streets as beggars. History reminds one of how far he has crossed on settled grass, on vast fields that not long ago his ancestor called their conquered lands. From the Upemba marshes in congo our ancestor pushed further south and crowned their inheritance as Mwene Mutapa, and further south when they reached the ends of what could of been seen as the end of the heavens rose the warriors from the sky, the Nguni warriors known as Zulus and from this we lay claims to this vast heartland of Africa. So don't tell me the heartbreak history of this land means nothing. This vastness of space is filled with my ancestors, my people, and my oath to defend it lies in this deep continuity. MBAPANTHERS are the hunter of this lands. We will hunt those who prey on our inheritance.
Like I said before learn from history, don't become the slave to it that you have already allowed yourself to be. You talk about history being tossed aside, that would imply that someone said things were to be forgotten ..... I said never forget, I said learn, and I said move forward and prove that the people are better than the former aggressors. You have become what you profess to fight against, one who tries to impose the will of himself and like minded individuals on the masses through hate and race issues.
I did not once say that the history, treatment and deaths meant nothing, I didn't say that the former colonial issue shouldn't be addressed, and I certainly didn't say that people shouldn't feel aggrieved.
History doesn't dictate the present state, it is simply a series of stepping stones on the way to the future. Bringing history into the equation simply shows that you are stuck in the time when Africa was mostly under the heel of external oppressors, but now that era has finally and thankfully ended, you refuse to let go of your hate because you seem to see it as the only thing you have left. When 'whitey' has gone from Africa, who will you turn it on then, because your kind never stop ..... which section of the black population will you persecute just because they preach something different to what you believe?
Yes I am in what you loosely term as 'The West', but that doesn't mean that I agree with what has historically happened, it also doesn't mean I agree with what is happening now. I lived in Rhodesia and I lived in Zimbabwe, does that make me any less likely to want to go back there under Zimbabwean terms and pull together with the people there regardless of colour to help rebuild the country I love?
And would it make me any less likely, if I were eventually to go back, to join forces with the rest of the people of Zimbabwe to fight off external aggressors, be they black, white, yellow or blue with pink spots?
The answer is no, so get off your high horse and start looking at reality, not your John Wayne fantasies ..... You live on the same planet and under the same sky as I, we breathe the same air, and we bleed the same colour blood. That makes us human and, in the eyes of God, equal ..... and thats my words, not those of my father, or Robert Mugabe, or Ian Smith, or Cecil John Rhodes ..... and they're not the words of my colour, my country or my hemisphere either. I am answering you as a person, so have the common decency to answer me as one please.
We learn from history and on that noted history we will build Africa under the aesthetics and know how of the African mind. "Your kind never stops," our kind is native to this African soil, Nostalgia is a predisposing condition leading to suicide so don't dwell about a place and people who can care less about you. And for your information just because one carries the past on his shoulder does not mean he isn't moving forwards. Africa young and gifted are returning to the African sun, with worldwide experience and know-how. The virgin landscape does not need your western demon hand assisting Africa on developing it's landscape. The world does not need the hands of the devil to rock the cradle of humanity. Cure yourself of nostalgia and settle in on your ancestral grounds in europe. Stay out of Africa best said by Marcus Garvey "AFRICA for THE AFRICAN, EUROPE for THE EUROPEAN, ASIA for the ASIAN and the collaborative stolen lands of the Americas for the World we all played a role on those people's carnage and cultural demise by ignoring them. We should not forget this people of Native America or Australia who have lost all. Not Africa!
'Your kind' was not referring to the African, but the minority within Africa that practice intolerance and racially motivated hatred. And just because the governments of the west did you wrong in the past, is that any reason to paint all westerners as demons ..... in actual fact the real demons in this scenario are you and your like minded brothers, whose intolerance has brought once proud nations to their knees all in the name of 'Africa for the Black Africans and no-one else'.
If you look at it logically, almost no-one in the world is purely native to their countries and continents, how far in history do you want to go back for this 'ethnic relocation'?
Face facts, you are a simple racist, and no amount of dodging questions and hate speeches are going to disguise that fact ..... most people have at least a modicum of reason about them, and can see sense when posted ..... you are a product of the liberation struggle, and in your wake will come a new era of colonialism ..... and where will you turn when you need allies to help you shake off the yoke of the east, because they are out for themselves just as much as the west were in the 19th and 20th centuries?
"If you look at it logically, almost no-one in the world is purely native to their countries and continents, how far in history do you want to go back for this 'ethnic relocation'?" How far back in time you want to go? I will begin with day one. I didn't get on a boat and travel 7495 miles through ocean which is regard as a continental marker to reach this african soil. As far as I know we walked to the southern shores. Nostalgia don't tread on us. Recolonization must loom alot in your lips, the outcome of a colonial spawn who can't find a definition on his native land europe. Is the liberal gay consumer life of europe depressing? Why not take what you learned about culture and establish that in Europe instead of ailing yourself with Nostalgia. Were not falling head over heels for neither east or west. Were opening up to like minded people who have an understanding of what it truly means to be part of a globalized world, this is where history and a deep understanding of it builds a lasting relationship. We all breath the same air but those who want to suck up everyone air is not brought to the dinner table. We don't want your collective kind at the dinner table until you learn to have good manners.
"Were opening up to like minded people who have an understanding of what it truly means to be part of a globalized world"
Thats a contradiction in itself, as all your previous posts have concentrated on closing off, not opening up ..... would you like to decide what you mean before you open your mouth next time?
Recolonisation, not my style ..... I prefer to live in a country under the rules of that country, whether I'm in the majority or minority with expectation of neither favour nor persecution.
And how can you comment on others manners when you evidently have none yourself, you have shown yourself not only to be a racist of the highest order, but also to be a hypocrite of the worst sort. You claim one thing then go back on it time after time ..... yet will only address the points that you can apply your racially charged attitudes to.
Oh, and you might want to do a bit of research on the history of the peoples of the planet if you're wanting to reset to day 1, the migration of peoples over time might surprise you, as might the land patterns ..... but of course you'll then claim that you didn't mean 'day 1', you meant day 1 of the colonial era.
Get yourself back to reality and stop living in the past ..... and as for the 'liberal gay consumer life' you describe, if it is as bad as you make it out to be why are there as many Africans over here as there are, welcomed into the communities by most people ..... oh yes, most of them have come over here because they're in fear of their safety from one of their own ..... and you're saying that they'll return because the 'whitey' has left? More likely that they'll be joined by more of their brothers and sisters escaping virtual slavery in their own countries at the hands of their own leaders.
This cycle won't end until certain people learn to work together, and not (as in your blinkered view) when Africa is awash with yet more blood.
Mbapanter, you are one pathetic racist in the disguise of an African patriot. Are you so insecure that every white person or just a mention of the word white makes you shake in your boots? It sure appears so. To me it looks like you have no faith in your leadership and are constantly on the look-out in case the white man comes to take the rubbish you have left in your country. What a way to live. Meanwhile right under your nose your leader Mugabe is busy funneling money left right and center out of Zimbabwe into his banks elsewhere, you have no food, millions of your Zimbabweans have fled, those left behind have to be wheeled in wheelbarrows and Scotch carts for lack of ambulances and fuel to be carted to clinics and hospitals which are now death traps for lack of medicines, but there you are oblivious just shouting like a jackass the "white man is coming." Do you know who your real enemy is? Look in the mirror. Don't forget the past but stop the racism and hate.
I read a funny article once about the hardest word to translate: Ilunga happens to be the hardest word to translate to the west, even when told by the people of it's meaning still turned out to be to hard for the west to comprehend. Ilunga in tshiluba as told by the people is said to mean,"a person who is ready to forgive any abuse for the first time, to tolerate it a second time, but never a third time". pretty hard to sink in? Nostalgia I'll let you dwell on that for now.
Were the third generation Grandfather, father, son. The sons of new africa.
Nostalgia for abuse???
I'm sure that would amuse you, but where are your replies to the points raised above? Or don't the facts raised there fit in with your small minded views?
dream on mate....the last thing you want is to piss of the americans..they will come and kick your sorry behind and leave before you have a chance to pull up your baggy pants!! so careful there with the false bravado....I know it is easy to imagine you are some kind of superhero after watching superman or spiderman but that is just fantasy mate...your lot are no match for the USA or Europe!
MBA PANTHER (black panther affliliate) think there as american as wonder bread. Their here in Africa too. They are after all African American. Don't level all American as though they sit here and are highly concerned about europe settler problems. No one would give a rats ass about some settler getting their head chopped off in Southern Africa, your own history has sealed your fate on the African soil. My answer to your questions. I have hands, I have eyes, and two feet. I have military experience, I have a college degree, my parents are in politic, I'm african rich, my wealth is sealed. I have time to devote my attention from now to the end of my time to getting rid of the prey and push other to self-reliance. Africa is a manageable landscape that needs to be pushed back to it's authentic blueprint, some neocolonial african liberal might think africa needs the west but new africa is going to break the back off the puppet if he doesn't march according to his own beat.
You idiot Panther, you got your money using the West way if you are in fact the things you say, same as your education.Do you think they come from traditional Africa? I find people with tunnel vision extremely amusing They take with one hand from someone and then pretend it came from themselves! If you are true to your traditional beliefs, go back to the traditional ways, if not learn to live with all people. You are as bad as any colonialist and you think in a very similar way to what they did. Look at the world, the great countries of this world are multicultural and there is only a few great examples, which every country should look at and use as a model for peace and harmony.These countries have learned to forgive and to live and help each other and change to respect all there people.There are racists in all countries, but it comes from a lack of education or is passed down through spiteful parents that lack respect for themselves and others. Education is useless,if not gained for its intended use!
My formative education started in africa, nourished on the african soil, went to america, and has returned to Africa. My education . Not europe, not the west "MY" formative education. My understanding and reasoning has nothing to do with Europe.
to the west
amazing how a desire to retain what is naturally and god given makes me a supreme racist, branded the Grand Wizard of Africa, the Hitler of Africa. Africa has always looked at foreigner with a smile on their face and a welcoming note, culture makes it impossible to hate deeply yet when you have noticed the mischievous nature of those who you have welcomed now it's wrong for me to tell them to leave. Isn't that what this is all about? A thief in your home and your telling me to keep him in. I'm just honest and stating a truth that probably touches a deep core. Whites (those who settled on foreign lands) are the greatest thieves in this authored drama of our time. Their the antagonist wherever they have gone. African justice pushing this settler out of Africa will be a global justice and end to an era of many global misdoing, an end to an era of mass extinction, mass rape, and mass exploitation. Southern Africa holds the key to a long awaited global justice. God has brought the settler to be judged by his noble people, to be judged in the land where humanity itself found footing, as we are the first to walk this earth and to judge this earth on a moral basis so will we judge the exploiter of this world. Race isn't the issue we judge according to deeds. And many deeds have laid the masses of the world to their graves, the blood of many nations pours and cries from the bellow of the earth, remainder of forced marches, enslavement, and of women raped of all dignity. Far to long we sat and waited maybe the wise will awaken a cruelly rapacious being from straying towards the demonic wild tribes we have been warned of since creation , but he doesn’t listen. Histories error only adds to his pride and builds an ego that is forever a cause of mishaps all around. Like a ferocious dog he doesn’t know that he has taken his last bite. And the children Africa who rose with the first horizon are to forever leash his barbaric practices.
Well, at least you've finally answered one question, and that is the one of where you will turn your attentions if you manage to finally eject the nth generation whites from Africa, and the answer was that you will indeed turn on your own people simply because they hold a different view from your small minded one.
"some neocolonial african liberal might think africa needs the west but new africa is going to break the back off the puppet if he doesn't march according to his own beat."
So indeed the comment of 'your kind just don't stop' has been proven to be correct, as has your level of intolerance and arrogance. You are, in fact, of the same mind as some of the original colonialists that you claim were the ultimate criminals in Africa ..... suppress the masses because they think, act or look different to yourself, which makes you no better than they were.
His own beat, where am I dictacting that I am marching him to my beat. Man has to march according to his native beat it's called self reliance.
Yes, its also called personal choice and global liberty, what you are insinuating is that your way of thinking should dictate what 'his own beat' is, and that anyone whose beat differed from yours would be unwelcome at best.
The theme that runs through your entire tirade of posts is that any African can do whatever they choose to do, unless it involves something that you disapprove of, like having white friends, or actually thinking for themselves ..... get over yourself and do the world and Africa a favour by climbing back under the rock you crawled out from under.
Well, well, well...kuba, phiri, etc..all you haters of the so called "puppets of the west"....looks like your zero..sorry, hero mugabe is now shaking hands and negotiating with Morgan the paid puppet of the west. what say ye now?? Maybe the self styled first tart had a hand in it seeing as she was no longer allowed to fly to Britain and indulge her favorite passtime in Harrods etc. anyway, whatever my musings on the event..do give us the benefit of your skewed view on this please. I am sitting here trying to work out what bilge you will come up with to save face!!!